Andrew Connell [MVP SharePoint]
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In my days as a SharePoint professional living in the Publishing / CMS space, I frequently come across a customer who pits SharePoint against some of the other Web based CMS products out there. Most of these customers have been to a site called CMS Watch. Many times they quote what these guys say and write about as well as their "SharePoint Report." And so starts the saga of a long winded email chain, usually a few phone calls and possibly an onsite meeting shooting down, poking holes and mitigating the issues that CMS Watch raises on SharePoint. This is really annoying because I see customers over and over trust a source that is just not unbiased (and thus trustworthy) in my mind.

CMS Watch has a blatant and obvious bias against everything Microsoft, especially SharePoint. Their SharePoint Report paper leaves a lot to be desired and, just like the posts on their site, picks at SharePoint in every chance they get. They attack things that are so edge case that can usually be mitigated. The post that put me over the top that caused me to go off on this little rant was by one of their principals who recently said:

We've critiqued SharePoint's rather awkward web publishing capabilities in different evaluation reports. But we also see customers who seek to deploy SharePoint for their public websites, either because they want to experiment with the platform, or because the business side is being forced to use it (often under the misimpression that it will be "free").

Let me highlight two statements in that quote: according to CMS Watch, the only reasons people deploy SharePoint (after bucking the rest of their opinions) is either to "experiment with the platform" or "the business side is being forced to use it." Those for darn sure don't sound like unbiased statements. So... there's just never a reason that SharePoint is a good fit. Nope... that couldn't be the case. So the folks at KPMG, Swiss Air & Orange County Public Schools were just experimenting or were forced into it because they thought it would be free? That's one heck of an experimental budget & visible test. Show me someone who was going to deploy an enterprise CMS system who expects it to be free that they didn't download off SourceForge. Sorry... I don't buy that and I think they'd take offense to those biased statements.

I'd love to see what other reports they've done, but all I find is a SharePoint Report... sure there's a Web CMS Report, but where's the other stuff like BEA Report, WebSphere Report or OpenText Report? Interesting. And even in the page where they sell their SharePoint Report, they point out problems and then point you over to another paper they make you think you just must buy if you're considering using SharePoint for a Web based CMS.

Now also consider the source of this post: I'm an obvious backer & promoter of SharePoint in the enterprise (and no, not just for experimentation or because I was forced to do it). I see tremendous value, and have provided tremendous value, in helping companies deploy SharePoint not only for intranets and internal collaboration, but also for Internet facing content-centric CMS sites. Is it for everyone? Heck no... and I'll tell a customer right off the bat if it isn't. I've got issues with parts of SharePoint too. In fact, many of the painpoints I have are shared with many folks in the SharePoint community, but I find it interesting that many of these points are missed by CMS Watch.

I could go on but I don't want to turn this into a bashfest. Instead let me part with this: simply consider the source of where you get your information... especially those who charge you for their [biased] opinions.

posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 2:35 PM

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# re: When doing research, ALWAYS consider the source 7/8/2008 4:58 PM Kanwal Khipple
Gravatar Andrew

I agree with your opinion on this matter. Sites like CMS Watch put out reports that are quite biased and just point out to guys like us, that are unprofessional.

# re: When doing research, ALWAYS consider the source 7/8/2008 5:25 PM Chris Poteet
Gravatar As a former WordPress turned SharePoint consultant I'm very versed not only in WCM but the many platforms available. SharePoint's WCM capability does make me go: "That's it?" For a huge amount of $ that's all I get? And you point that out that there are limitations, and it's not for everyone.

Granted you've written a book on SP WCM, and I haven't; but I think it has a long way to go before it can be in the same league as some other WCM systems.

# re: When doing research, ALWAYS consider the source 7/8/2008 6:06 PM AC [MVP MOSS]
Gravatar Chris-
Now we can have a good debate... but at least you didn't charge for that opinion :)

# re: When doing research, ALWAYS consider the source 7/8/2008 9:08 PM John Ross
Gravatar Are there other WCM systems? Definitely. But you really have consider what you are getting. Take something like Vignette- it is a very robust WCM solution that can do a lot of fancy stuff. But it also costs an arm and a leg, takes 6 months to implement with a full team, and good luck trying to find anyone who knows how to use it and can support it for you. You think Vignette/SAP/Websphere portal developers grow on trees? A friend of mine who works for IBM conceeds that the availability of resources is something they can't compete with MS on.

Personally, I think the WCM stuff for MOSS is outstanding and it is getting better all the time as the product matures. When you consider the fact that compared to many other WCM platforms the total cost of ownership (licensing, implementation costs, maintenance) and the ease of use, in addition to all of the non-WCM stuff you also get I think it is very tough to beat especially.

Tell me another platform where you could toss up a robust and fully customized and branded WCM solution in a couple weeks? Heck, many of the other platforms take that long just to install. CIOs want to see ROI and in that respect MOSS beats the pants off the competition.

John



# re: When doing research, ALWAYS consider the source 7/8/2008 10:16 PM Chris Poteet
Gravatar @AC: Yes, we could! There are many good CMS' out there, and I think in 2011 (I hope) SP will be up there with the best of them it's just "1.0" right now.

My company, Mixon Consulting, decided to opt out of the SP WCM and we use Graffiti CMS instead. That has a nice markup language, and it's very elegant.

There are so many options, and I'm sure SP will be up there in time.

# re: When doing research, ALWAYS consider the source 7/8/2008 11:07 PM Randy Drisgill
Gravatar Well, I haven't read the report, but I have recently participated in a study of several WCM systems including Vignette, Drupal, Word Press, WSS, MOSS, and Dot Net Nuke. I can tell you that MOSS really does put up an excellent set of features for medium to large sized organizations. I think where MOSS really shines though is all the related tech that is wired into MOSS like versioning, approval and integration with Office and AD, that makes managing a larger website a lot easier.

Can you do WCM in MOSS, yes and AC's examples are dead on. Can you do WCM in a free product, yes. But often you will find yourself relying on free or for pay 3rd party components to pull off certain features.

I would hope that CMS Watch is being as critical of all their other reviewed CMS's.

# re: When doing research, ALWAYS consider the source 7/9/2008 8:18 AM Steve Terlecki
Gravatar Excellent post. IT Strategists and Business Analysts need to be critical of the solutions deployed in their environments. Sharepoint has come a long way in the past years, and the integration with Office is really slick. Is this the right tool for the job is an important question that should be asked before deploying any software solution. WSS is quick to start and the community is growing, so support for creative uses of the tool exists. However; what I encounter a lot is the "kitchen sink" effect. Since Sharepoint is so flexible, IT orgs end up trying to use it for everything:

With custom list capabilities growing and more and more examples out there, Sharepoint deployments can sometimes become a quick and dirty alternative to real db design.

Some orgs try to create a fully custom website in Sharepoint that doesn't use any Sharepoint doc mgmnt capabilities (the core power within Sharepoint) or any other capabilities of the platform because it appears to be a cheap and dirty alternative to maintainable web development practices.

These are just some examples of things I have seen, but the point is that experts and consultants need to help unmuddy the waters. Although Sharepoint has a great community and growing, it isn't the final solution. Hopefully MS recognizes that Sharepoint is an effective tool that should be refined, and consultants and IT pros can help sort out the tools IT needs to be effective.

# re: When doing research, ALWAYS consider the source 7/9/2008 1:52 PM Bjørn Furuknap
Gravatar Hammering SharePoint for lack of certain features in certain areas is like hammering a screwdriver because it does work for painting. Or hammering some other CMS for lack of a SharePoint specific feature.

People need to stop being technology or vendor focused whether they are for or against. Look at required features, compare possible vendors or products and see who fits best. If that is something other than SharePoint, don't try to force SharePoint into the square hole, just use something else. SP WCM is great only as long as your requirements fit. It is horrible if your requirements do not fit.

# re: When doing research, ALWAYS consider the source 7/9/2008 5:22 PM Stefan Keir Gordon
Gravatar Well said. I recently ran up against similarly educated users with some of the same mis-information.

To add to your list from my own experience, and some pretty slick external moss sites:

http://www.gamesforwindows.com


http://www.hawaiianair.com/



http://www.oldcastleprecast.com



http://www.onvia.com


I guess they were all forced to use the platform by their business users... It couldn't have anything to do with the ease of content updates, the publishing frameworks or the search capabilities. :)


# re: When doing research, ALWAYS consider the source 7/9/2008 7:39 PM JDP
Gravatar We paid for the CMSWatch report, and we wound up implementing sharepoint. I'm not quite sure why you're as petulant as you are about the report, especially the citation you've made -- the "experimentation/ business side" isn't the only reason they see for deployments, and it's a mischaracterization to say that's their take on the situation. Further, they do offer reports on, e.g., IBM's and Oracle's products, among many others.

Just because they're not total cheerleaders for the product doesn't make them haters, and it's paranoid to imply otherwise.

# re: When doing research, ALWAYS consider the source 7/9/2008 7:53 PM AC [MVP MOSS]
Gravatar JDP-
You totally missed my point. I'm saying they are haters on the product because they aren't "cheerleaders"... there's a way you can be unbiased and critical in a report. The experimentation / business forced comments were straight from Tony's blog post that I cited... NOT from the report.

# re: When doing research, ALWAYS consider the source 7/9/2008 8:14 PM JDP
Gravatar Well, our takeaway from CMSWatch is that Sharepoint isn't a total "slam-dunk" for ease of deployment. We carefully planned out our usage scenarios and had to deal with (and therefore mitigate) a lot of potential problems before, and reinforced the importance of IT governance in sharepoint; working hand in hand with your users . Their report was a good guide, and helped us quite a bit.

And honestly, there is a bit of "nobody ever got fired for buying microsoft" when it comes to sharepoint -- I've talked with people who expected it to be a replacement for shared drives, or a way for users to control their own content, and wound up with dense, unmanagable sites. These people who didn't do their planning, or just "threw it over the wall" will wind up with disappointed users. I'm personally happy that that wasn't the case with our deployment.

# re: When doing research, ALWAYS consider the source 7/11/2008 2:48 AM alan pelz-sharpe
Gravatar Hi there,
as one of the authors of the CMS Watch report on SharePoint (The SharePoint Report 2008) and a principal at CMS Watch I felt I had to answer this one ;-)
The fact is there is a lot of positive comment from us regarding MOSS, and any reader of our extensive research would know that - at every presentation we make on the topic we stress the fact that we think MOSS is an excellent product.
However, it is not perfect - and there are occasions when it is not a good fit for buyers, and buyers are who we write for not vendors. Vendors are criticized equally by CMS Watch - and we never ever work for vendors. This is a stark contrast to other analyst firms out there.
MOSS is a good product - but unfortunately too many people have bought it to use in unsuitable situations - it has been miss sold by the channel - sometimes accidentally sometimes deliberately. Microsoft's own definition of ECM differs from the rest of the industry causing more confusion. And frankly there are some major deployments out there in Fortune 500 firms that have gone terribly wrong.
So we see our job as dishing out the good and the bad - ensuring buyers are well informed and well armed. The cheerleading we will leave to the vendors - be that Microsoft, EMC, IBM or anyone else.
Hope this helps to clarify ;-)
Best
Alan

# re: When doing research, ALWAYS consider the source 7/11/2008 6:07 AM AC [MVP MOSS]
Gravatar Alan-
I beg to disagree. I have read the content and everything I read puts a negative spin on SharePoint... nothing seems unbiased. My comments are being confused with unbiased evaluations and cheerleading. I am not saying you are not cheerleaders... you shouldn't be based on who you are. I'm simply saying that everything I see publically from CMS Watch finds the positives in SharePoint, while assuming the negatives rather than presenting both of them in an unbiased fashion. Have I read every single report? No... but I've seen some and it matches the tone that I read in your public RSS feeds.

You speak about presentations too. I have had numerous customers who have had the exact same experience after reading your reports that attend your presentations: they require cleanup after consuming your content. I will say that all of this seems to come from just a few specific people at CMS Watch.

# re: When doing research, ALWAYS consider the source 7/11/2008 11:16 AM Peter Seale
Gravatar Even if you think CMSWatch went a little hard against SharePoint WCM, overall I think it's good to have them around.

And I attended a recent session by Tony Byrne, and while he had several criticisms of SharePoint, he could back up his criticism with details, i.e. it wasn't just uninformed MS-bashing, it was informed MS-bashing :)

It seems like CMSWatch is the only place in the world that provides a detailed critique of SharePoint; everyone else is either selling software (MS), services (consultants, includes me), or even just currying favor with Microsoft (everyone, includes me). Maybe they're too critical; I don't know. But I'd rather have one biased report than no report at all.

I'd also rather "clean up" after criticism than "clean up" after cheerleaders--I seem to do a lot more of the "cleaning up after cheerleaders," and I'm not totally happy about that.

Final note, before I go way long: I think you, AC [MVP], the WCM guy, can do any WCM implementation successfully, whereas many of us just don't have the skills or experience--e.g. the rest of us struggle with content deployment failures--so a lot of their criticisms are valid, just not for your projects.

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